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乔布斯访谈录：苹果创新动力之源在哪里？
October 12, 2004
The Seed of Apple's Innovation
CEO Steve Jobs says among other practices, it's "saying no to 1,000
things" so as to concentrate on the "really important" creations
In an era when most technology outfits have tightened their belts to
adapt to a slower-growing market, one company stands out for forging
ahead on innovation: Apple Computer (AAPL ). Others have slashed R&D
and focused on incremental advances to existing product lines. Not
Apple.
By combining technical knowhow with a new concept for how to sell
music online, Apple's iPod music player has become the most
influential new tech product in years. At the same time, Apple has
maintained its reputation for making the most elegant, easy-to-use
desktop computers as well.
Much of the credit for this performance is attributed to Chief
Executive Steven P. Jobs, who founded Apple in 1976 -- but was ousted
in 1985 before making a triumphant return in 1997. BusinessWeek
Computer Editor Peter Burrows recently talked about the nature of
innovation with Jobs, who is back to work part-time after recovering
from pancreatic cancer surgery. Here are edited excerpts of their
conversation:
Q: Apple has long been an innovative place with lots of smart,
passionate engineers. But it seemed to fall off the map in the years
before you returned in 1997. What happened?
A: Let's start at the beginning. Both [Apple co-founder] Steve Wozniak
and I -- and I think I can speak for Woz -- got our view of what a
technology company should be while working for Hewlett-Packard (HPQ )
in the late 1960s and early 1970s. And the first rule over there was
to build great products. Well, Apple invented the PC as we know it,
and then it invented the graphical user interface as we know it eight
years later [with the introduction of the Mac]. But then, the company
had a decade in which it took a nap.
Q: What can we learn from Apple's struggle to innovate during the
decade before you returned in 1997?
A: You need a very product-oriented culture, even in a technology
company. Lots of companies have tons of great engineers and smart
people. But ultimately, there needs to be some gravitational force
that pulls it all together. Otherwise, you can get great pieces of
technology all floating around the universe. But it doesn't add up to
much. That's what was missing at Apple for a while. There were bits
and pieces of interesting things floating around, but not that
gravitational pull.
People always ask me why did Apple really fail for those years, and
it's easy to blame it on certain people or personalities. Certainly,
there was some of that. But there's a far more insightful way to think
about it. Apple had a monopoly on the graphical user interface for
almost 10 years. That's a long time. And how are monopolies lost?
Think about it. Some very good product people invent some very good
products, and the company achieves a monopoly.
But after that, the product people aren't the ones that drive the
company forward anymore. It's the marketing guys or the ones who
expand the business into Latin America or whatever. Because what's the
point of focusing on making the product even better when the only
company you can take business from is yourself?
So a different group of people start to move up. And who usually ends
up running the show? The sales guy. John Akers at IBM (IBM ) is the
consummate example. Then one day, the monopoly expires for whatever
reason. But by then the best product people have left, or they're no
longer listened to. And so the company goes through this tumultuous
time, and it either survives or it doesn't.
Q: Is this common in the industry?
A: Look at Microsoft (MSFT ) -- who's running Microsoft?
Q: Steve Ballmer.
A: Right, the sales guy. Case closed. And that's what happened at
Apple, as well.
Q: How did Apple recapture its innovative spark?
A: I used to be the youngest guy in every meeting I was in, and now
I'm usually the oldest. And the older I get, the more I'm convinced
that motives make so much difference. HP's primary goal was to make
great products. And our primary goal here is to make the world's best
PCs -- not to be the biggest or the richest.
We have a second goal, which is to always make a profit -- both to
make some money but also so we can keep making those great products.
For a time, those goals got flipped at Apple, and that subtle change
made all the difference. When I got back, we had to make it a product
company again.
Q: How do you manage for innovation?
A: We hire people who want to make the best things in the world. You'd
be surprised how hard people work around here. They work nights and
weekends, sometimes not seeing their families for a while. Sometimes
people work through Christmas to make sure the tooling is just right
at some factory in some corner of the world so our product comes out
the best it can be. People care so much, and it shows.
I get asked a lot why Apple's customers are so loyal. It's not because
they belong to the Church of Mac! That's ridiculous.
It's because when you buy our products, and three months later you get
stuck on something, you quickly figure out [how to get past it]. And
you think, "Wow, someone over there at Apple actually thought of
this!" And then three months later you try to do something you hadn't
tried before, and it works, and you think "Hey, they thought of that,
too." And then six months later it happens again. There's almost no
product in the world that you have that experience with, but you have
it with a Mac. And you have it with an iPod.
Q: What's the CEOs role in all of this?
A: I don't know. Head janitor?
Q: Seriously, a lot of people give you much of the credit. How much of
it is you?
A: Look, I was very lucky to have grown up with this industry. I did
everything in the early days -- documentation, sales, supply chain,
sweeping the floors, buying chips, you name it. I put computers
together with my own two hands. And as the industry grew up, I kept on
doing it.
Not everyone knows it, but three months after I came back to Apple, my
chief operating guy quit. I couldn't find anyone internally or
elsewhere that knew as much as he did, or as I did. So I did that job
for nine months before I found someone I saw eye-to-eye with, and that
was Tim Cook. And he has been here ever since.
Of course, I didn't tell anyone because I already had two jobs [CEO of
Apple and of movie maker Pixar Animation Studios (PIXR )] and didn't
want people to worry about whether I could handle three [jobs]. But
after Tim came on board, we basically reinvented the logistics of the
PC business. We've been doing better than Dell (DELL ) [in terms of
some metrics such as inventory] for five years now!
Q: With the iPod, Apple moved beyond the PC into consumer electronics.
But you're still considered a niche player that picks its spots in
bigger markets. Will you try to expand to become a more full-line
player, like a Sony (SNE ) or Samsung?
A: The fact that you're comparing us to Sony is a statement in itself.
I'm flattered. We really respect those guys and what they've
accomplished over the years. But we're just trying to make great
products. We do things where we feel we can make a significant
contribution. That's one of my other beliefs.
I've always wanted to own and control the primary technology in
everything we do. Take audio. For years, the primary technology was
the [marking mechanism] inside a CD or a DVD player. But we became
convinced that software was going to be the primary technology, and
we're a pretty good software company.
So we developed iTunes [Apple's music jukebox software that later
morphed into the iTunes Music Store]. We're a good hardware company,
too, but we're really good at software. So that led us to believe that
we had a chance to reinvent the music business, and we did.
Q: Many people say we're in a period in which advances in various
digital technologies -- from drives to chips to screens to networking
gear -- is going to change the nature of innovation. Rather than
inventing something from scratch, innovation will be the art of
putting all of these capabilities together in new ways.
A: Of course, you're never going to invent everything. But what's the
primary technology? And what's the concept of the product? Where does
the conceptualization come from? I guarantee the 1.8-inch hard drive
was not invented for iPods. But that's not the primary technology in
an iPod.
Q: How do you systematize innovation?
A: The system is that there is no system. That doesn't mean we don't
have process. Apple is a very disciplined company, and we have great
processes. But that's not what it's about. Process makes you more
efficient.
But innovation comes from people meeting up in the hallways or calling
each other at 10:30 at night with a new idea, or because they realized
something that shoots holes in how we've been thinking about a
problem. It's ad hoc meetings of six people called by someone who
thinks he has figured out the coolest new thing ever and who wants to
know what other people think of his idea.
And it comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get
on the wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about
new markets we could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can
concentrate on the things that are really important.
Q: How much do you have to do with Apple's innovations?
A: We go back and forth a lot as we work on our projects. And we've
got such great people [in the top executive team] that I've been able
to move about half of the day-to-day management of the company to
them, so I can spend half my time on the new stuff, like the retail
effort. I spent and continue to spend a lot of time on that. And I
meet weekly for two or three hours with my OS X team. And there's the
group doing our iLife applications.
So I get to spend my time on the forward-looking stuff. My top
executives take half the other work off my plate. They love it, and I
love it.
Q: So the key is to have good people with passion for excellence.
A: When I got back here, Apple had forgotten who we were. Remember
that "Think Different" ad campaign we ran [featuring great innovators
from Einstein to Muhammad Ali to Gandhi]. It was certainly for
customers to some degree, but it was even more for Apple itself.
You can tell a lot about a person by who his or her heroes are. That
ad was to remind us of who our heroes are and who we are. We forgot
that for a while. Companies sometimes forget who they are. Sometimes
they remember again, and sometimes they don't.
Fortunately, we woke up. And we're on a really good track. We may not
be the richest guy in the graveyard at the end of the day, but we're
the best at what we do. And Apple is doing the best work in its
history. I really believe that. And there's a lot more coming.
Q: You're back at work on a part-time basis. Are you going to come
back full-time?
A: Yes. That was one of the things that came out most clearly from
this whole experience [with cancer]. I realized that I love my life. I
really do. I've got the greatest family in the world, and I've got my
work. And that's pretty much all I do. I don't socialize much or go to
conferences. I love my family, and I love running Apple, and I love
Pixar. And I get to do that. I'm very lucky. |
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发表于 2004-10-19 11:42
