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秒杀中医理论系列之二 —— 秒杀阴阳(更有趣味性,不可错过!) [复制链接]

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31 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 03:08 |只看该作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 02:15 发表

他在《原子核物理学》一书中提出:“有两个参数:微观粒子的位置和速度,可以确定该微观粒子的运动。不过,任何时候也不可能同时准确地了解这两个参数。任何时候也不可能同时了解:微观粒子处于何处,以多大的速度和向哪个方向运动。如果进行实验测量,如精确地测定粒子在特定时刻所处的位置,那么运动即遭到破坏,以致以后不可能重新找到该粒子。反之,如果精确地测出它的速度,那么它的位置图象就完全模糊不清。”


注意这里微观世界里测量对测量对象造成改变的必然性,与我们宏观世界中所理解的测量误差是不一样的。


用脚趾头想想,就知道“微观粒子的位置和速度,可以确定该微观粒子的运动”这样的错误不可能是Heisenberg的错误,一定是翻译的错。Heisenberg甚至不肯用位置:
Heisenberg's paper did not admit any unobservable quantities like the exact position of the electron in an orbit at any time; he only allowed the theorist to talk about the Fourier components of the motion.


再给你引一段:
The uncertainty principle is often explained as the statement that the measurement of position necessarily disturbs a particle's momentum, and vice versa—i.e., that the uncertainty principle is a manifestation of the observer effect.

This common explanation is incorrect, because the uncertainty principle is not caused by observer-effect measurement disturbance.


科普完了,别在测不准里头寻找不可知的理论依据,回头去回答LZ的问题吧。

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32 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 03:14 |只看该作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 02:15 发表
http://learn.tsinghua.edu.cn:808 ... ges/heisenberg4.htm
他在《原子核物理学》一书中提出:“有两个参数:微观粒子的位置和速度,可以确定该微观粒子的运动。

据说你是物理科出身。谁是你的老师,你去问问他,不加评判的这样引用,是不是给Heisenberg抹黑?

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33 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 03:15 |只看该作者
原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-6-2 02:53 发表
希望到明晚能看到教徒们的惊艳表现utu:" /> 本来我问的问题都很有趣味性 不探讨一下多么可惜  女入党积极分子 发情的母猪


你已经很惊艳了。我也学你张冠李戴一下
下面两段话分开看都不怎么惊艳,合在一起看就很惊艳了!
http://bbs2.chinaunix.net/viewthread.php?tid=1455691&extra=&page=14

原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-5-30 01:54 发表
刚走了几个传统逃法的,又来了一个装不懂汉语的,中医神教人才辈出!
看来我得加一句话:想回复此贴者,请先确认自己认识汉字,并具有小学级的阅读理解水平!说中医教徒有初中水平都是高估了


原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-5-30 02:38 发表 [url=redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=10622541&ptid=1455691][/url]


老师让你用牛顿第二运动定律解应用题,你把牛顿第二运动定律写上就算解题呀?

请直接回答我一楼的问题,我看不懂这些鬼话,车轮大法和跳大神理论我也看不懂!是个男人就别当缩头乌龟,会就说,不会就说不会!

[ 本帖最后由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:51 编辑 ]

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34 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 03:42 |只看该作者
原帖由 tom_xx_hu@yahoo 于 2009-6-2 03:08 发表


科普完了,别在测不准原理里头寻找不可知的理论依据


虽然我就这么被你“科普”完了,但不得不申辩一下我一点也没有想用测不准原理来支持中医,而是当成两个完全不同的话题,每次讨论测不准原理我都是严格限制在微观量子领域的,你从我回复的所有帖子都能看出,我最反感的就是将一门学科的概念原理滥用到其他学科甚至“宇宙”上,如同terristwin之流一样。对那个terristwin我已经没什么鸟兴趣了。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principlestates that certain pairs of physical properties, like position andmomentum, cannot both be known to arbitrary precision. That is, themore precisely one property is known, the less precisely the other canbe known. It is impossible to measure simultaneously both position andvelocity of a microscopic particle with any degree of accuracy orcertainty. This is not a statement about the limitations of aresearcher's ability to measure particular quantities of a system, butrather about the nature of the system itself and hence it expresses aproperty of the universe.
In quantum mechanics, a particle is described by a wave.The position is where the wave is concentrated and the momentum is thewavelength. The position is uncertain to the degree that the wave isspread out, and the momentum is uncertain to the degree that thewavelength is ill-defined.
The only kind of wave with a definite position is concentrated atone point, and such a wave has an indefinite wavelength. Conversely,the only kind of wave with a definite wavelength is an infinite regularperiodic oscillation over all space, which has no definite position. Soin quantum mechanics, there are no states that describe a particle withboth a definite position and a definite momentum. The more precise theposition, the less precise the momentum.
The uncertainty principle can be restated in terms of measurements, which involves collapse of the wavefunction.When the position is measured, the wavefunction collapses to a narrowbump near the measured value, and the momentum wavefunction becomesspread out. The particle's momentum is left uncertain by an amountinversely proportional to the accuracy of the position measurement. Theamount of left-over uncertainty can never be reduced below the limitset by the uncertainty principle, no matter what the measurementprocess.
This means that the uncertainty principle is related to the observer effect, with which it is often conflated.The uncertainty principle sets a lower limit to how small the momentumdisturbance in an accurate position experiment can be, and vice versafor momentum experiments.
A mathematical statement of the principle is that every quantum state has the property that the root-mean-square (RMS) deviation of the position from its mean (the standard deviation of the X-distribution):
times the RMS deviation of the momentum from its mean (the standard deviation of P):
can never be smaller than a fixed fraction of Planck's constant:
Any measurement of the position with accuracy collapses the quantum state making the standard deviation of the momentum larger than .

[ 本帖最后由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:53 编辑 ]

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35 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 03:45 |只看该作者
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Uncertainty_principle
最好是看看链接原文

The uncertainty principle,' sometimes called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, states that interaction and mechanical action come in quanta, that is, in discrete units. While one can detect an integral number of quanta, one cannot detect one half or two thirds of a quantum. The quantum of interaction joins the quanta of energy, time, and space in the current description of the world. The size of all these quanta is small—which is why they appear continuous—and determined by the size of Planck's Constant.

Thus, in quantum physics, the outcome of even an ideal measurement of a system is not deterministic, but instead is characterized by a probability distribution, and the larger the associated standard deviation is, the more "uncertain" one might say that characteristic is for the system. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle gives a lower bound on the product of the standard deviations of position and momentum for a system, implying that it is impossible to have a particle that has an arbitrarily well-defined position and momentum simultaneously. More precisely, the product of the standard deviations \Delta x \Delta p \geq \hbar/2, where \hbar (pronounced "h-bar") is Planck's constant, h, divided by 2π (the circumference of the unit circle).

The principle generalizes to many other pairs of quantities besides position and momentum. Examples of such complementary pairs are angular momentum about two different axes, and mass-energy in time, and can be derived directly from the axioms of quantum mechanics.

Note that the uncertainties in question are characteristic of the nature of the physical world. In any real-world measurement, there will also be additional uncertainties created by the non-ideal and imperfect measurement process. The uncertainty principle holds true regardless of whether the measurements are ideal (sometimes called von Neumann measurements) or non-ideal (Landau measurements). Note also that the product of the uncertainties, of order 10−35 Joule-seconds, is so small that the uncertainty principle has negligible effect on objects of macroscopic scale and things appear to be continuous rather than quantal, rather like the pixels of a photo on a computer screen that, from a distance, blend into a continuum.

The uncertainty principle was an important step in the development of quantum mechanics when it was discovered by Werner Heisenberg in 1927. It is connected to the observer effect—that observation requires interaction, and interaction involves a quantum of change, an unavoidable "disturbance" of the thing being observed.

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发表于 2009-06-02 04:00 |只看该作者
原帖由 tom_xx_hu@yahoo 于 2009-6-2 03:14 发表

据说你是物理科出身。谁是你的老师,你去问问他,不加评判的这样引用,是不是给Heisenberg抹黑?


我还特地说明给你推荐的“不伤脑细胞”的“小品文”,真是可惜了我对你的情商的估计。以后我对你的回复一定都会很严肃的。参看34和35楼

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发表于 2009-06-02 05:24 |只看该作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:42 发表


虽然我就这么被你“科普”完了,但不得不申辩一下我一点也没有想用测不准原理来支持中医,而是当成两个完全不同的话题,每次讨论测不准原理我都是严格限制在微观量子领域的,你从我回复的所有帖子都能看出, ...

抄写得很好,就是没懂。
The uncertainty principle is often explained as the statement that the measurement of position necessarily disturbs a particle's momentum, and vice versa—i.e., that the uncertainty principle is a manifestation of the observer effect.

This common explanation is incorrect

这段话就在同一行文中。

再仔细品味这几个字:“related” 和"it is often conflated”。

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发表于 2009-06-02 05:25 |只看该作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 04:00 发表


我还特地说明给你推荐的“不伤脑细胞”的“小品文”,真是可惜了我对你的情商的估计。以后我对你的回复一定都会很严肃的。参看34和35楼

知道不够严肃,那很好

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发表于 2009-06-02 05:29 |只看该作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:45 发表
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Uncertainty_principle
最好是看看链接原文

The uncertainty principle,' sometimes called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, states that interaction a ...

还是抄写没过脑子。同一行文里的这句话看见没有?
It is understood that the uncertainties in the system exist prior to and independent of any the measurement, and the uncertainty principle is therefore more fundamental than the observer effect.

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40 [报告]
发表于 2009-06-02 07:04 |只看该作者
中医讨论之热让我感动。但是建议另开个哲学版块供各位抒发高见。
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